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  #1  
Old 12-09-2005, 10:15 AM
kerux kerux is offline
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Location: Kingsland, TX
Posts: 112
Default Crazy idea...but interesting

Ras,

I've been doing some thinking about the possibilities of the "deep search" feature and it's use in my favorite area of Roman Provincials. As you may know, there are a zillion provincial coins that feature a reverse showing a standing figure holding some things. Up till now attributions for such coins generally depended on legend fragments alone. A worn provincial with little or no legend was largely unidentifiable unless you just waded thru tons of pics hoping for a match.

What occured to me is that these "standing figure reverses" do have features that could be used in a deep search senario. Some of the fields could be:

Position:
- Stg. left
- Stg. right
- Facing

Gender:
- Male
- Female

Head:
- Turreted
- Wearing something
- Uncovered

Left hand position:
- Raised (Above 90 degrees)
- Extended (90 degrees)
- Lowered (Below 90 degrees)

Left hand holding:
- Patera
- Scepter
- Rudder
- Scales
- Purse
- Grapes
- Cornucopia
- Nothing....etc.

Right hand position:
- Raised (Above 90 degrees)
- Extended (90 degrees)
- Lowered (Below 90 degrees)

Right hand holding:
- Patera
- Scepter
- Rudder
- Scales
- Purse
- Grapes
- Cornucopia
- Nothing....etc

Each of these fields would also need an "unknown" choice that would deactivate it so as to not filter out any coin. Just these seven points of comparison would provide a HUGE help to provincial attributers by focusing their search to the truly relevant coins. Such a feature would certainly give Tantalus another unique tool that I believe would attract more traffic to the site.

I have no idea of the practicality of creating such a feature (cost/effort/etc.). It would obviously require someone (I'll do it!) to go back and edit the existing provincials at Tantalus to incorporate the new template. If you see any value in this & want to pursue it, I'll work up a fuller list of things being held on these type of provincials.

Like I said....a crazy idea...but very interesting...


Joe W.
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  #2  
Old 08-04-2006, 10:49 PM
Zatuku
 
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It is really??
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  #3  
Old 08-07-2006, 02:15 PM
kerux kerux is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Kingsland, TX
Posts: 112
Default Yup...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zatuku
It is really??

I think so...

Joe W.
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  #4  
Old 08-17-2006, 01:46 PM
snakehair snakehair is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8
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Kerux, have you seen the format ISEGRIM uses to describe coins? It is ideal for the kind of searches you want. For example, here are reverse descriptions featuring Tyche from Hierapolis:

WOMAN SITTING L(1) / ON / THRONE
WOMAN SITTING L(1) / ON / THRONE / THEREUNDER / BIRD / EAGLE
WOMAN SITTING L(1) / TYCHE(1) / ON / ROCK / FIGURE SWIMMING LE / RIVER-GOD PYRAMOS
WOMAN SITTING L(1) / TYCHE(1) / ON / SHIELDS
WOMAN STANDING HL(1) / TYCHE(1)
WOMAN STANDING HL(1) / TYCHE(1) / ALTAR LE(2)
HEAD WOMAN R / TYCHE
HEAD WOMAN R / TYCHE / TORCH
PERSONS 2 / WOMAN STANDING HR(1) / HEKATE(1) / MAN STANDING HL(2) / APOLLO(2)
PERSONS 2 / WOMAN STANDING HR(1) / TYCHE(1) / MAN STANDING HL(2) / EMPEROR(2)

I got these by searching for "Tyche", but if I didn't know it was Tyche I could have searched for "Woman Sitting", "Woman Standing", "Persons 2", "Head"+"Torch", etc.

Vacano's book _Typenkatalog der antiken Münzen Kleinasiens_ supposedly uses a similar scheme (I don't have the book; alas).

Along with these (which are called "Types") there are "Attributes", for example:

BRANCH PALM(1) / WREATH(1) / RUDDER(2) / POLOS / CORNUCOPIAE(2)
RUDDER(1) / POLOS / CORNUCOPIAE(1)
STAFF(1) / POLOS
HAND RAISED / POLOS / STAFF(1)
CORN-EARS(1) / TURRETED(1)
CORN-EARS(1) / POPPY(1) / RUDDER(1) / POLOS / CORNUCOPIAE(1) / FIGURE(1) / PLUTOS INFANT(1)

Last edited by snakehair : 08-17-2006 at 01:50 PM.
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  #5  
Old 08-17-2006, 02:29 PM
kerux kerux is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Kingsland, TX
Posts: 112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snakehair
Kerux, have you seen the format ISEGRIM uses to describe coins? It is ideal for the kind of searches you want. For example, here are reverse descriptions featuring Tyche from Hierapolis:

WOMAN SITTING L(1) / ON / THRONE
WOMAN SITTING L(1) / ON / THRONE / THEREUNDER / BIRD / EAGLE
WOMAN SITTING L(1) / TYCHE(1) / ON / ROCK / FIGURE SWIMMING LE / RIVER-GOD PYRAMOS
WOMAN SITTING L(1) / TYCHE(1) / ON / SHIELDS
WOMAN STANDING HL(1) / TYCHE(1)
WOMAN STANDING HL(1) / TYCHE(1) / ALTAR LE(2)
HEAD WOMAN R / TYCHE
HEAD WOMAN R / TYCHE / TORCH
PERSONS 2 / WOMAN STANDING HR(1) / HEKATE(1) / MAN STANDING HL(2) / APOLLO(2)
PERSONS 2 / WOMAN STANDING HR(1) / TYCHE(1) / MAN STANDING HL(2) / EMPEROR(2)

I got these by searching for "Tyche", but if I didn't know it was Tyche I could have searched for "Woman Sitting", "Woman Standing", "Persons 2", "Head"+"Torch", etc.

Vacano's book _Typenkatalog der antiken Münzen Kleinasiens_ supposedly uses a similar scheme (I don't have the book; alas).

Along with these (which are called "Types") there are "Attributes", for example:

BRANCH PALM(1) / WREATH(1) / RUDDER(2) / POLOS / CORNUCOPIAE(2)
RUDDER(1) / POLOS / CORNUCOPIAE(1)
STAFF(1) / POLOS
HAND RAISED / POLOS / STAFF(1)
CORN-EARS(1) / TURRETED(1)
CORN-EARS(1) / POPPY(1) / RUDDER(1) / POLOS / CORNUCOPIAE(1) / FIGURE(1) / PLUTOS INFANT(1)


Thanks for the info. I have applied for ISEGRIM membership...looking forward to using the database.

Joe W.
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  #6  
Old 08-17-2006, 03:14 PM
snakehair snakehair is offline
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ISEGRIM is wonderful. For the last 30 years they have been describing Greek coins using Vacano's style and putting them into a database which now has 60,000 coins. It's great for identifying coins. It is also great if you think you have an unpublished coin -- ten seconds and ISEGRIM tells you it was published in some obscure journal in 1934. I imagine it provides a great start for die studies as well.

The downside is that it can only be queried in an unusual format. There is no form-based query, and no URL-based query. ISEGRIM also demands a password, which was important ten years ago when computers were slow and 60,000 was a lot of records to search. (I am a huge fan of Vacano's work and would like to publicize and improve ISEGRIM but I cannot contact Vacano and don't want to start writing front-ends and stuff without permission.)

There is a lot to be for your suggestion of structured deep search for Provincials. The problem is, of course, data entry. It would be hard to teach Vacano's format to folks who just want to look at their collections and maybe sell a few coins.

Better, I think, would be something like LibraryThing that was integrated with ISEGRIM and WildWinds. For example, instead of typing in descriptions for each coins we could just type in a Von Aulock or RPC or SNG Copenhagen reference, and Tantalus would query ISEGRIM for the coin, filling in all the other fields.

Obviously this is a lot of work. Although LibraryThing is free and can offer this for books, LibraryThing has the pre-existing Z39.50 search format, so a lot of the work was already done for them.
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